Hello again...

As many of you know, I designed and build a while back the Asymmetric Motors Generators...However, they were PM on stators, as their armature was done by separated coils (not in series).

On this Lockridge Device, I can see a definite way to make it work...and that is to have on the same Armature Two Windings, one with fine wire, say 22 or 23 gauge, and another one with 16-18 gauge.

We wind armature with the two spools of wire, in order that have same number of turns...

But that is not all...it needs Two Commutators, one for Motor and the other for the generation of power. Of course, the 18 gauge would be generating, and the 22-23 would be motor.

So, there would be two brush "levels"...and two brushes per level. Two for Motor and Two for Generator.

This way we will have completely separated the Motor from Generator Circuits...electrically though. As both windings will get induced, but the higher resistance less currents than coarser one.

My Asymmetric Motors had two commutators...and eight brushes...so, this one would be much easier to make.

Problem is to see if shaft allows room for two commutators...and there is room on housing, without the need to extend the casing...which could also be done...but then it gets more complicated.

There are Fan Motors pancake style that already come from factory with a "two commutator set", but one is smaller in diameter that the lower one...and it is used for different speeds.

But this is a small motor, flat...not good for this project. I just cited as an example that it could be done.

Regards

Ufopolitics

There was a company by the name of Fabco Power who were manufacturing belt driven generators like you describe with the armature wound in that particular way. I did call them at that time and asked if it had a commutator and slip rings in side the case. Been a long time ago. I believe they said it did. Some info in case you want to check it out further.

Quote from: Ufopolitics on Nov 12, 2024, 03:44 PMBut you can look at the one (Armature) on Bedini's video...it has a Thick-heavy & coarse single wire wound that it "jumps" every other commutator bar...

While other Armature have these wires connected side by side in ALL Commutator Elements, not jumping.

Remember these armatures were wound with finer wire...as Stators were heavier.

UFO I have 2 of these armatures Most all of these type of armatures have the same size wire. What you are seeing is the insulation that is wrapped over the top of the other windings with that single wire on top of the insulation.

In the lap winding where the wire returns is on either side of where it started. This is shown by the way the wire spirals looking at the commutator from above. Either side of commutator from where the winding started is either progressive or retrogressive. In other words more for motoring or for generation. 

Also the diameter of the commutator dictates the speed when powering it as a motor. Smaller diameter more speed,larger diameter slower speed. A lot of tractors had a smaller diameter because the rpm was low.

Hope this helps Curt.

Quote from: hiwater on Nov 14, 2024, 10:49 AMIn the lap winding where the wire returns is on either side of where it started. This is shown by the way the wire spirals looking at the commutator from above. Either side of commutator from where the winding started is either progressive or retrogressive. In other words more for motoring or for generation.

Hi Hiwater,

Ok, yes, I know exactly well how a lap winding is done, since I have done it hundreds of times...yes, exactly, SAME wire "returns" after it reaches each comm bar.
When you look at armature, wires are crossed on every hook to commutator.
This is the most common type of winding done for brushed dynamos.
However, this is NOT the case!!
Look again at Bedini's video Armature below...plus another one I downloaded from EBAY...identical.

I ZOOMED BOTH Images.


Have you wound any motors or generators Hiwater?

If you have, you know it is impossible to set that insulation beneath, and then hook each "returned wire" for each commutator bar and END IT, for ALL wires.

When you are lap winding, you only end without return, on the LAST Coil wound!!...it is when you finally "loop" ALL Coils (The First with the Last)

On this type of winding, we have here, every single one of this thick wire DIES at a SINGLE Commutator Bar...besides it is "alternated"...but that does not matter (irrelevant) on the type of winding we have here.

Quote from: hiwater on Nov 14, 2024, 10:49 AMUFO I have 2 of these armatures Most all of these types of armatures have the same size wire. What you are seeing is the insulation that is wrapped over the top of the other windings with that single wire on top of the insulation.

Ok, if you have 2 of these armatures...please do Us all a favor, since I do not have one now.

1-Take a Resistance Meter and apply probes on commutator bars at 180º approximately...
2-Then take another reading at 45º...
3-Then test setting probes on 2 bars next to each other's (alternated)...

Please, First do ALL 3 Steps on thick wires contacts Bars, then REPEAT them on empty contacts Bars.

Quote from: hiwater on Nov 14, 2024, 10:49 AMAlso the diameter of the commutator dictates the speed when powering it as a motor. Smaller diameter more speed, larger diameter slower speed. A lot of tractors had a smaller diameter because the rpm was low.

Hope this helps Curt.

Yes, I knew that, but thanks.

Regards

Ufopolitics

Hi guys,

I am afraid I am going to have to agree with Curt on this.  I have looked very carefully at the zoomed picture and I believe I see that under the insulation there are wires the same size as the ones we can see.  I have marked the hump in the insulation that appears to be the right size to cover a wire that is the same size as what we can see.  I have also marked the alternate segments of the commutator.  It looks like there are wires soldered to those segments but the wires are covered by the insulation.



Respectfully,
Carroll