Hello team,

Dear Alex and Mr.Ufo,
after close observation of this concept, I have a feeling that Magnetic or Optical encoders will efficiently replicate switching sequencing the same way as is being described on dual commutator assembly. Please guys if you find a little time to make some research on encoder idea or visualizing the work it can provide post it here to see if it's worth to brainstorm on it. Mechanical system is reliable, but friction, heat and longevity of the machine is important too.

Regards!!! 

Reply to Message # 793 Subject Ref.: Shaft Reference Point

@ All and dear friend Ufopolitics,

Following Ufopolitics' recent clarification regarding the shaft reference convention, CW/CCW operation, quadrant sequencing, and the dual-commutator PCB implementation, I have prepared a new Engineering-Level Quadrant Animation Sequence Rendering to help visualize the complete operating principle.
This new rendering was developed specifically to address one of the most important questions that has arisen throughout this project:
Does the bipolar commutator driver maintain the same sequential output regardless of the rotation direction?

What this rendering demonstrates
1. Shaft Reference Convention
As Ufopolitics explained, all rotational analysis is performed from the power-input side of the shaft.
This establishes a common engineering reference for defining CW and CCW rotation.
2. Dual 32-Segment Commutators
The model shows:

• Upper Positive Commutator (32 segments)
• Lower Negative Commutator (32 segments)
• Brushes mounted 180° apart
• Annular PCB routing boards attached directly to the commutators
• Eight output channels per commutator

3. Quadrant Animation Sequence
The rendering illustrates the brush sweep through all four quadrants while comparing:

• Clockwise (CW) rotation
• Counter-Clockwise (CCW) rotation

Step-by-step progression shows how the brushes transition through the commutator segments and how the sequential outputs are generated.
4. Key Observation
The analysis confirms Ufopolitics' explanation:
Although the quadrant sequence reverses when the rotor direction changes, the resulting output progression delivered to the excitation coils remains functionally identical.
In other words:

• CW operation produces the same 1→8 sequential output set.
• CCW operation also produces the same 1→8 output set.
• Only the internal quadrant traversal reverses.

The electrical result remains unchanged.
5. Brush Relationship
The rendering also highlights that:

• Positive and Negative brushes remain exactly 180° apart.
• Both brushes always occupy corresponding quadrants.
• Quadrant transitions remain synchronized throughout rotation.

Purpose of this Rendering.
See image below: IMAGE 32-Segment Bipolar_QUADRANT


The goal was to create a visual engineering reference that allows builders and researchers to quickly understand:

• Shaft convention
• Quadrant behavior
• Brush synchronization
• Output sequencing
• CW vs CCW operation
• Dual commutator PCB architecture

without requiring a full animated CAD package.

Next step: Planned Renderings
The next engineering renderings will focus on:

• Transparent cross-sectional current paths
• PCB layer routing visualization
• Segment-by-segment switching sequence
• Builder-friendly simplified assembly drawings
• Manufacturing-oriented commutator dimensions

Many thanks to Ufopolitics for continuing to provide detailed CAD models, operational explanations, and design corrections that make these engineering visualizations possible.

Best regards, Alex (user: kampen)

Reply to Message # 795 user Art Z. >> A magnetic or optical encoder could potentially replace the first function entirely by providing<<

Hello Art Z.,

Thank you for bringing up this idea. After studying Ufopolitics' dual commutator concept in detail, 
I believe your suggestion deserves serious consideration.

From an engineering perspective, the mechanical commutator is currently performing two separate functions:

• Determining the switching sequence and timing of the active coil groups.
• Physically switching power to the selected positive and negative tap connections.

A magnetic or optical encoder could potentially replace the first function entirely by providing precise shaft position information to a controller. 

The controller could then command a Solid-State switching stage to reproduce the exact same Group 1 through Group 8 sequence, including the reverse sequence and the critical overlap timing between groups.
Personally, I see the magnetic encoder as the more attractive option. 
It is generally more tolerant of dust, vibration, and environmental conditions than an optical encoder, while still providing excellent position accuracy.

One important detail is that the encoder would not replace the power switching itself. 
It would only provide position feedback. 

The actual switching would still be performed by a MOSFET-based solid-state driver designed to replicate the behavior of the mechanical commutator.
What makes this especially interesting is that the overlap timing could be adjusted in software. 
We could precisely control the transition from one group to the next and maintain Ufopolitics' requirement that the central six-coil "main field" never collapses during commutation.
The advantages could include:

• No brush wear
• No commutator friction
• Reduced maintenance
• Improved timing precision
• Adjustable overlap parameters
• Longer operational life

At this stage, I still believe the mechanical commutator remains the best reference platform because it allows us to validate the switching theory directly.
 
However, once the operating sequence and electrical behavior are fully confirmed, an encoder-driven solid-state implementation may become a very attractive next-generation solution.
Definitely worth further brainstorming.

Best regards, Alex

Hello All,
Hello @Art Z.
Hello @kampen

Ok this would be a short response here, because I am doing some other things.

@kampen , Thanks for confirming that rotation direction does not affect the end Eight output signals!
Now, related to the 2D CAD for PCB's:

Both PCB's (positive and negative) are IDENTICAL related to wiring lines.
They are just like TWINS.
All that changes between the two are the Colors on identifying which is -/+
But related to Quadrants Mapping and Conducting Lines are IDENTICAL.

Meaning that by making just ONE PCB layout it will serve for both.
This is great for Production Line Manufacturing because all they need to do is change the Colors and/or the Printing "Positive and Negative".

Related to Spec's on how to build them robust, to stand all environmental circumstances:

I leave that up to you, since you know all details related to vibration and Power handling versus obtaining a reliable final result.

We need to calculate these boards capable to handle up to 200 Volts at 2 Amps Max.
But we could always exceed those spec's to play safe.

Therefore my 2D CAD will be just based on ONE PCB.
And basically I will be showing the TWO CIRCUITS: Upper & Lower and the two layers together.

@Art Z, that is a great idea, and I also agree that needs further development. Thanks for the Input!
However, I BACKUP and AGREE on a 100% Kampen's response to you.

Optical Encoders (also used on Servo Motors) for Robotic and Automation Industry) will serve to send the positioning data at very accurate levels. However, they alone can not handle the Power transfer switching we need here.

Back in 1996-2000, I developed a Motor which could commutate using Infrared Commutation-Switching...via transmitter-receiver.
However, the issue here is the Power Handling capabilities of these electronic components.
So, as @kampen wrote, these low voltage operating devices would do serve as the low signal operation to be then sent to a Robust FET Switching System to handle the High Power Switching requirements.

Concluding: As @kampen wrote, so far this Brush operated commutator is the best mechanical option to drive this System.
As also will demonstrate the Generation Capabilities of the Coils arrangement as a Primary development.
Now, after everything results at very promising output, we can then try to search and develop more sophisticated options where friction and wear is reduced or completely avoided.

Regards to All

Ufopolitics

@ All and Hello my friend Ufopolitics, 

Following the latest design developments with Ufopolitics, I have completed a new series of Engineering renderings of the 32-Segment Bipolar Commutator Driver. 
These renderings incorporate the most recent MAYA CAD updates, including the dual PCB-ring concept, stationary commutators, inside-out rotating brushes, quadrant logic, and CW/CCW rotational equivalence.

The goal of these renderings is twofold:

• To provide a clear engineering-level visualization of how the complete system operates.
• To gradually evolve toward a builder-friendly version that can ultimately be reproduced by experimenters without requiring advanced CAD or engineering skills.

The first rendering focuses on the engineering principles behind the design and includes:
Image below: 32-Segment Bipolar Commutator Driver Next Engineering Renderings



• Transparent cross-sectional current paths
• Dual-layer PCB routing visualization
• Segment-by-segment switching sequence
• CW versus CCW quadrant operation comparison
• Builder-friendly assembly concept
• Preliminary manufacturing dimensions