Quote from: Classic on Nov 05, 2024, 02:42 PMCan we obtain anything from a power source if we manipulate the reference point ? What makes the difference between 2 phases AC (pure voltage differential) without neutral (return wire) and AC single phase from power grid ?

Can we make anything with this ? Would be more useful if there are 4 phases AC or more, still without neutral line ?

Nope you can not.
There is very small V Differential between phases.
Plus, Electricity is all about generating a FLOW, from High to Low.
And you just wrote it above..."return wire"
A Return wire is the low, return point.

Take care

Ufopolitics 

This is interesting, why did you assume the difference is small ? Where did you placed the reference point to make the measurement ?

Quote from: Classic on Nov 05, 2024, 06:41 PMThis is interesting, why did you assume the difference is small ? Where did you placed the reference point to make the measurement ?

Simply, because you have to know how a rotary generator (source) for 1, 2 and 3 phase works.

So, all the Stators (Induced to Source Output) for each phase is carefully mechanically plus electrically balanced on ALL existing Generators (same or around equal number of turns)
As this balance also guarantees a smooth, even rotation as counter torque (BEMF)

Ufopolitics

There is some light in what you say, but I never had any intention to create a solid state generator based on the same principle of kinetic input. Geometrical arrangement may enhance or reduce torque.

PMSM motors indeed create torque without movement. If we can control behaviour of the motors manipulating voltage and/or frequency, in theory we can reverse the order when we use a motor as generator and we "trick" the motor to see an electrical input as kinetic input.

But, I am curious what people mean by small or big difference in potential in 2 phases AC ? And how exactly we measure this difference ?
Also, why 2,4 or more phases ignore any isolation between circuits ... or at least I am unable to isolate even if will lose any gain and make a net loss.

Anyway, I will comeback later to ask what is the self induction mentioned in almost all papers and patents 100-150 years ago and simply "forgotten" or ignored after 1930-1950.

Hi Classic,

I saw your question on the other thread about power phases.  All modern electrical distribution systems use 3 phase power.  This requires 3 wires that are all hot in reference to ground.  The voltage on each of those wires is 120 degress out of phase from the other two wires.  For long distance distribution that voltage is several thousand volts.  For most modern factories and plants that voltage is lowered using transformers to 440 volts between any two of those three wires.  Some older plants and businesses may have the voltage lowered to 208 volts between wires or as we call it phases.

Your home has a transformer feeding power to your house.  That transformer has a special arrangement in the way it is wound.  That transformer takes two of the three hot wire and applies that to the primary of the transformer.  You home my use A and B.  The next home may use B and C.  And the next home may use C and A.  By using different phases for different homes that helps to keep the power balanced back at the generating station.

The secondary of the transformer is what feeds the power to your home.  It has a center tap that is midway between the A and B phase or whatever you incoming power is.  For safety reasons that center tap is grounded.  This prevents you household power from becoming several hundred volts above ground.  The 110 to 120 volts you use for your normal appliances is actually called split phase power because it is using one phase in reference to the center tap or neutral line.  For your appliances that require 220 volts you actually use both wires but in reality that is only single phase since you don't have the other two connections from B to C and from C back to A.

To review,  from A to B is one phase and from B to C is another phase and from C back to A is the third phase.  

I hope this helps.
Carroll