Baghdad Battery

[Classic]

May worth to mention that the compound coils weight about 20.4 grams and twisted pair of wires weight 2.33 grams.

If anyone wants to build such a system may find useful to know or approximate total weight and consider this for easy "relocation" (weight in transit without water), like build and sell it ... the only problem to be solved is how to fabricate as many cells recipient with a good solution to empty and fill multi stackable, busbar for tide connections between cells (connectivity and interconnectivity).

If someone is smart enough to make use of electrostatic charge may find this info useful, considering low/no amps and high voltage (or just high enough) without having complicated and expensive solution to collect this charge from a high altitude, using low leak capacitors may help.

[kloakez]

Hi Classic,

this is interesting I will try to make one...or several if it works  From my experience, store-bought deionized water is not completely without impurities, it is clean enough for the purpose it should be used for, I have several TDS (total dissolved solids) meters so I can report that value too. I am interested if the output is an AC signal or if it really is just a potential that is "put to life" by the capacitor.

Does the number of turns matter?

[Classic]

Hi Classic,

this is interesting I will try to make one...or several if it works From my experience, store-bought deionized water is not completely without impurities, it is clean enough for the purpose it should be used for, I have several TDS (total dissolved solids) meters so I can report that value too. I am interested if the output is an AC signal or if it really is just a potential that is "put to life" by the capacitor.

Does the number of turns matter?

Hi kloakez,

Deionised water is all I can suggest off the shelf, if you have something better, use it 👍🏼 
Output is dc. But ... if you want to measure AC you need a water flow ... I can read some AC if suddently immerse in water and suddenly take it out ... there is AC spikes in this way indeed, but as long as it is static will yield DC only.

As number of turns: make enamelled copper as close as you can for the coil length specified, and aluminium will have about half turns as copper due to wire size and spacing.

But as I said, once you reach 0.6-0.7 volts you won't get anything higher by increasing the mass ... not sure about amps

Also, I got good results using aluminium sheets for beverage cans and 0.2 mm thick copper foil both 240x85 mm with fiberglass mesh (fibre glass rolls for drywall plastering) ... this type of cells works with little water or full ... as long as there some water vapors, there will be steady voltage. You need to roll the 2 sheets together and one of the sheet must have all round fibre glass insulation the roll obtained in this way must fit in a plastic tube and a hole for wires connected to be placed in the lid to prevent much of evaporation or leakage. ... kind of difficult to make on the spot.

If you want I will try to make a youtube clip but, best is hands on experience and check out yourself.

Also, if you can afford you can use magnesium ribbon instead of aluminium and leave the oxide surface layer on which naturally occur. You can wind the ribbon on top of copper or just use a length to fit inside the copper coil, provided that magnesium ribbon do not touch the uninsulated end of copper in the water. This will give you 1.4-1.6 v pe cell. Make sure air bubble do not form on magnesium otherwise there galvanic reaction occur and magnesium will turn black on each spot where air bubble is trapped.

My aim is to make it as cheap and easier as possible to build.

I need to stress that tide connections must be done and as short as possible length between cells if you want to series or parallel them with some good quality wires for batteries or brass busbar. Any gross imperfection will yield voltage/current drop massive. Also each cell must be tested to yield same voltage, max 0.02 voltage difference and use one cell as standard to compare all others.

Aluminium wires: https://www.wires.co.uk/acatalog/al_wire.html
Enamelled copper wires: https://www.wires.co.uk/acatalog/SX_0750_2000.html 

Avoid amazon as it is flooded with crap quality items and there are 2-5 times more expensive than it should be if you choose a trusted provider, or recover wires from scrapyards.
Also, if you wish, you can buy pharmaceutical grade pure water or distilled water or deionised water, or make your own from rain water.

Unfortunately tap water or potable water quality is very poor and most of the time is heavily contaminated, not to mention inadmissible high level of chlorine on top of these.

I would love to see your replica if you decide to do it.

[Classic]

Hi all,

Following Joel Lagace PEG cell development I have tried my own and the result has left me puzzled.

Now I have a diode-battery with swapped polarity.

Normally magnesium is negative in combination with copper but it can be positive in combination with aluminium. So, using magnesium-copper in deionised water I can get 1.4-1.6 v per cell as I said earlier above.

So, because I can't get pure PEG (polyethylene glycol) 300 without paying a fortune as all constipation medicines based on PEG contain unwanted added chemicals, I have decided to use just pain flour and water ( my addiction to keep it ecologic natural and cheap) and heat up to jellify the compound (old wallpaper adhesive with extremely strong bonding on almost anything mineral and metal based).

Now, trying to evaluate the result I have found:
- it has no continuity between electrodes
- it has no resistance or extremely high
- usually negative magnesium electrode have become positive and copper negative from positive
- when attempt to measure voltage if negative probe connected to magnesium and positive probe to copper, there is no voltage. When positive probe is connected to magnesium and negative probe to copper 1.4-1.6v start to show up with positive flow ... swapping do not yield negative as normal when measuring voltage of batteries.

Any ideas how it can best used this diode-battery ?

[Classic]

As far as I can see there is not too much interest in this field 

Let's see if I can make things more attractive:

While working on final design of a "battery"  ... a solid state battery ! One which does not pollute the environment and most of elements are preserved for extremely long time while performing work (generate electricity).

So, the explanation for electricity generation in absence of an electrolyte between 2 dissimilar metals consist in their work function (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_function).

Also, using chatgpt for some explanations: https://chatgpt.com/share/368bf712-2d0c-4911-9134-a1252423b10c from which i will quote:


Q: How this reaction occur if none of the metals react with deionised water, lets consider just deionised water and not electrolyte as there is non conductivity ... also, I don't need water to obtain the same voltage, it is enough to just touch with my finger both metals

A: The scenario you're describing points to a phenomenon where the voltage is generated not because of a conventional electrochemical reaction involving the electrolyte (like water), but rather due to contact potential and natural electrochemical differences between the metals themselves, as well as the conductivity of the human body.
1. Contact Potential Difference (Galvanic Potential):

• Metals' Different Work Functions: Every metal has a characteristic property called the "work function," which is the energy required to remove an electron from the metal's surface. When two different metals (like copper and magnesium) come into contact, electrons tend to move from the metal with the lower work function (magnesium) to the metal with the higher work function (copper). This movement creates a potential difference, known as the contact potential or galvanic potential.
• Voltage Generation: This potential difference is what you are measuring as the 1.5V. It's not reliant on an electrolyte (like water), but rather on the intrinsic properties of the metals.

2. Role of Deionized Water:

• Minimal Conductivity: Deionized water has extremely low ionic conductivity, but there are still minute amounts of H
   +
   + and OH
   −
   − ions present. However, these ions are not significant enough to drive a traditional galvanic reaction in your setup.
• Water as a Medium: In this context, water mainly acts as a medium that might slightly influence the movement of ions or electrons if there were more ions present, but it's not crucial for the potential difference you're observing.

3. Human Body as a Conductor:

• Touching Metals: When you touch both metals with your finger, your body effectively acts as a conductive medium (because of the salts and moisture in your skin). The human body has a relatively high ionic conductivity, which can complete the circuit, allowing the potential difference between the metals to manifest as a measurable voltage.
• Surface Chemistry: The salts, oils, and moisture on your skin can also contribute to a tiny electrolyte effect, but the primary driver is the potential difference created by the contact between the metals.

4. No Need for an Electrolyte:

• Direct Measurement of Potential: The voltage you're measuring doesn't require an electrolyte like water because it arises from the fundamental electrochemical potential difference between copper and magnesium. The presence of deionized water, in this case, does little to alter this basic potential.

5. Why You See Voltage:

• Electromotive Force (EMF): The 1.5V you're observing is due to the intrinsic EMF generated by the difference in the metals' work functions. When you touch the metals, you complete a circuit, and the voltage appears because of the difference in how readily the metals release or accept electrons.
• Finger Contact: Your finger essentially bridges the two metals, acting like a crude electrolyte or conductor, allowing electrons to flow from one metal to the other and thus enabling you to measure the potential difference.

Summary:
The voltage you observe is not due to a reaction with deionized water but rather due to the intrinsic electrochemical potential difference (contact potential) between copper and magnesium. When you touch both metals with your finger, your body provides a conductive path that allows you to measure this potential difference, leading to the observed voltage. Deionized water is not necessary for this effect, and the potential difference exists purely because of the properties of the metals themselves.
The scenario you're describing points to a phenomenon where the voltage is generated not because of a conventional electrochemical reaction involving the electrolyte (like water), but rather due to contact potential and natural electrochemical differences between the metals themselves, as well as the conductivity of the human body.
1. Contact Potential Difference (Galvanic Potential):

• Metals' Different Work Functions: Every metal has a characteristic property called the "work function," which is the energy required to remove an electron from the metal's surface. When two different metals (like copper and magnesium) come into contact, electrons tend to move from the metal with the lower work function (magnesium) to the metal with the higher work function (copper). This movement creates a potential difference, known as the contact potential or galvanic potential.
• Voltage Generation: This potential difference is what you are measuring as the 1.5V. It's not reliant on an electrolyte (like water), but rather on the intrinsic properties of the metals.

2. Role of Deionized Water:

• Minimal Conductivity: Deionized water has extremely low ionic conductivity, but there are still minute amounts of H
   +
   + and OH
   −
   − ions present. However, these ions are not significant enough to drive a traditional galvanic reaction in your setup.
• Water as a Medium: In this context, water mainly acts as a medium that might slightly influence the movement of ions or electrons if there were more ions present, but it's not crucial for the potential difference you're observing.

3. Human Body as a Conductor:

• Touching Metals: When you touch both metals with your finger, your body effectively acts as a conductive medium (because of the salts and moisture in your skin). The human body has a relatively high ionic conductivity, which can complete the circuit, allowing the potential difference between the metals to manifest as a measurable voltage.
• Surface Chemistry: The salts, oils, and moisture on your skin can also contribute to a tiny electrolyte effect, but the primary driver is the potential difference created by the contact between the metals.

4. No Need for an Electrolyte:

• Direct Measurement of Potential: The voltage you're measuring doesn't require an electrolyte like water because it arises from the fundamental electrochemical potential difference between copper and magnesium. The presence of deionized water, in this case, does little to alter this basic potential.

5. Why You See Voltage:

• Electromotive Force (EMF): The 1.5V you're observing is due to the intrinsic EMF generated by the difference in the metals' work functions. When you touch the metals, you complete a circuit, and the voltage appears because of the difference in how readily the metals release or accept electrons.
• Finger Contact: Your finger essentially bridges the two metals, acting like a crude electrolyte or conductor, allowing electrons to flow from one metal to the other and thus enabling you to measure the potential difference.

Summary:
The voltage you observe is not due to a reaction with deionized water but rather due to the intrinsic electrochemical potential difference (contact potential) between copper and magnesium. When you touch both metals with your finger, your body provides a conductive path that allows you to measure this potential difference, leading to the observed voltage. Deionized water is not necessary for this effect, and the potential difference exists purely because of the properties of the metals themselves.

Q: So, in the light of this finding can we assume that metals or any other elements do posses their own energy ?

A: Yes, in a way, you can think of metals and other elements as possessing their own intrinsic energy in the form of electrochemical potential or work function. However, it's important to understand this concept in the context of physics and chemistry:
1. Electrochemical Potential:

• Work Function: Every metal has a characteristic work function, which is the minimum energy required to remove an electron from the surface of the metal. This energy is a reflection of the metal's atomic structure and how tightly it holds its electrons.
• Electrochemical Potential: This is the tendency of a metal to gain or lose electrons when in contact with another material (another metal, an electrolyte, etc.). Different metals have different electrochemical potentials, which is why a voltage can be generated when two different metals are connected in a circuit.

2. Intrinsic Energy:

• Atomic Structure: The energy you're referring to is not a "stored" energy like in a battery, but rather it is a result of the atomic and electronic structure of the material. The way electrons are arranged in the atoms of different elements determines how they will interact with other elements or materials.
• Potential Difference: When two different metals come into contact, the difference in their work functions leads to the movement of electrons from one to the other, creating a potential difference (voltage). This movement is driven by the intrinsic properties of the metals.

3. Chemical Potential:

• Chemical Energy: Elements and compounds also possess chemical energy, which is the potential energy stored in the bonds between atoms. In a chemical reaction, this energy can be released or absorbed.
• Energy in Reactions: The energy involved in electrochemical reactions (like in a galvanic cell) comes from the difference in chemical potential between reactants and products. This difference drives the flow of electrons through a circuit, doing work in the process (like charging a capacitor).

4. Understanding in Context:

• Not Isolated Energy: It's important to note that this "energy" isn't something that can be harnessed without interaction. The energy manifests when materials interact with each other, such as when two metals are connected and electrons flow from one to the other, or when a chemical reaction occurs.
• Relative Concept: The idea of energy here is relative, depending on the materials in question and how they interact. A metal doesn't "store" energy in the same way a battery does, but it does have intrinsic properties that determine how it will behave in certain conditions.

Summary:
Metals and elements do possess their own form of intrinsic energy, manifested as electrochemical potential or work function, which arises from their atomic structure and electron configurations. This energy can be observed when metals interact with other materials, generating a potential difference (voltage) due to their natural tendency to gain or lose electrons. However, this energy isn't a "stored" energy like in a battery, but rather a reflection of the material's inherent properties.

As well more info about studies regarding "workfunction" can be read here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0079681620300125 or any google or whatever online search engine regarding work function.

Also, a key element in 2 patents of Arie Melis deGeus.

More experiments done regarding pn junction considering Seebeck and Peltier effect considering what Arie deGeus says in one of his patent designed for thermoelectric generation with solar energy or other sources of heat, where I found out that glass sintered diodes like BYV27 (any voltage) exposed to solar radiation generate electricity

Now considering all the above I can say that a proper manufacturing method can be employed to build a very small scale device able to generate electricity in range of KWH.