Overunity Machines

I am Open Source.  So I share when I think something may work.

Quote from: floodrod on Mar 27, 2024, 08:33 PMI am Open Source.  So I share when I think something may work.

Hello Floodrod,

So are we...Open Source.

About your demo...this is a way of making it simple and obtain exactly same effect.
Now magnets shape may vary...as you may have independent magnets, fixed, and set at equal distances as bolts are on rotary black drum. (more likely that is the way you have it...because the slight cogging whenever rotating black, closed up drum)

I did it on image with arc magnets for sake of simplicity...for demonstration.

And of course, Steel Bolts are not permanently magnetized, but "temporarily" depending on the spatially nearest magnetic pole...

Edit: with Arcs like on image, you will have much less cogging...or "jumping" tendency when rotating drum.


Take care

Ufopolitics

Great job Floodrod.

You have found a way to get past the sticky spot.  I have modified Ufo's drawing for an idea to make it a self runner.  The two arced lines I have added are steel plates.  The magnetized bolts should be attracted to the plates until they get to the end where they are no longer magnetized which should let them go right past the end of the steel plate with no sticky spot.  I hope you will try that idea soon and let us see the video.





CarrollMagnetic Redirection of Polaritiesmod.png

Hi Carroll,

I downloaded your picture file but cannot open it with any picture file viewer, unfortunately.  Error message say invalid bit-picture or corrupted file.
Perhaps try to convert the original file into JPG and upload it?

Thanks, 
Gyula

Quote from: gyula on Mar 28, 2024, 12:31 PMHi Carroll,

I downloaded your picture file but cannot open it with any picture file viewer, unfortunately.  Error message say invalid bit-picture or corrupted file.
Perhaps try to convert the original file into JPG and upload it?

Thanks,
Gyula

After downloading the PNG picture file size is 284504 Bytes, if this helps?

Hello All,

Yes, the effect that Floodrod have shown on previous video, could be used to build a self-runner...it is actually based on the exact same principle that Symmetric DC Brushed Motors work.

Except the Polarity Reversal on Rotor is not done by the electrical reversing of armature coils through brush plane...But by the Magnetic Polarity Redirection on steel bolts mounted on drum.

The Non Magnetized steel bolts would swap polarities as they travel to the nearest magnetic pole and get "temporarily magnetized"...

Here I have done a Diagram where we get it running based on Repulsion and a Partial Attraction, but higher percentage is Repulse Mode:


Next I will show same setup, but based on majority of Attraction...

And of course, moving the external Arc Magnets we will adjust speed and torque.

The Green dotted line is the Neutral No Field Bisector.

Regards

Ufopolitics

Hello,

And here is running based on Attraction Mode...


If you all have noticed, all I have done is to rotate the outer Arc Stators (S1 + S2) about 90 degrees CW...

The three bolts temporarily South (red) above, will try to align to center of S1...but will never happen, because of the swap.

Also the lower three North (Blue) Bolts, would try to align on center of Arc Stator S2...

I have also shown here the Partial Repulsions taking place above and below.

Speed could be adjusted based on angle of outer stators...

Ufopolitics

Hello,

Here I have set the Inner Stators also with Arc Magnets, as originally on my first diagram...for better observation of the assembly.

As also here, the Outer Stators (S1 & S2) I have set them Perpendicular to Neutral Plane-Line.

On this arrangement, Both Attraction and Repulsion are pretty well balanced on equal forces:


On this alignment setup, the motor will not have a high speed or high torque...simply because the areas for attraction and repulsion does not cover a large area.

Here, if we rotate S1 & S2, CW, Motor would be higher percentage on Attraction.

And if we rotate S1 & S2, CCW, Motor would be higher percentage on Repulsion.

Both ways will keep same direction as shown by two black arrows inside rotor.

Regards

Ufopolitics

Hello,

About the construction details...

These Pairs of Arc Magnets, where the Inner Polarity is opposed, or N-S as also on the Outer would also be opposed, or S-N, are the typical Arc Magnets PAIR SET, that are used on every DC Brushed Motor.

So, all you need is to get the right circumference sizes on the Two Pairs you will need, so one smaller pair could go at the inner part, while the other bigger diameter pair would be used for the Outer Stators...

The Bolts heads should be flat sunk within rotor side walls, in order that a smaller air gap can be set with outer stator arcs.

Or you can make a specific type of steel studs, which have a square/rectangular head, thicker and wider than a bolt, or around same height of the outer Arc magnets.

I believe this should work, but it needs a good alignment to set it properly.

I would leave inner Arc Stators FIXED, as on outer Stators I would mount them on a rotary assembly that can be adjusted to then tighten and leave it fixed, once you get it running.

You will have to design a way to lift the Rotor Drum, away from magnetic fields from both sets of Stators by the action of a mechanical lever...to STOP Motor!!

Edit 1: And on my last sentence that I wrote above, reminded me of this guy from India or Turkey (I do not recall his name right now)...that needed a small hammer to turn ON his magnetic motor...remember?

Regards

Ufopolitics

Ok it looks like I got it fixed.  I am still learning Inkscape for modiying pictures.  Somehow it saved it as .svg even though it had .png as the extension.

Sorry about that.

Carroll

Hello,

Muammer Yildiz...was the inventor from Turkey, I was talking about...on my previous post.

On video go to minute 3:00, That is when He loosens the lever locking mechanisms then just "Taps" Drum lever, (IMO it should be like a "Fork" type at the actuator, connected to shaft, that allows to secure it back while motor is running) with a small hammer, to fall on the right position (within the magnetic fields of both Stators) and motor starts... ;D

Then he secures again the lever, on the "ON" Position, while motor is running...in order that drum stays on place.


Regards

Ufopolitics

My model uses the blotch wall of 1 solid magnet to make the neutral zone.  There is no need to separate the inner magnet and make an air gap.

I think it can be done optimally by using a setup like UFO posted but with 1 solid magnet in the middle.

flip.JPG

Quote from: floodrod on Mar 28, 2024, 06:05 PMMy model uses the blotch wall of 1 solid magnet to make the neutral zone.  There is no need to separate the inner magnet and make an air gap.

I think it can be done optimally by using a setup like UFO posted but with 1 solid magnet in the middle.

flip.JPG

Hello Floodrod,

And many thanks for presenting your demo video!

Yes, you could use a full center magnet, however, not fully solid, because you need to have a hole, so you could run the drum shaft...right?

In order for this motor to work smooth and not to get stock, the Inner and Outer Stators need to be around the same strength or balanced out.

That is the reason why I used cubes or arcs of more or less the same force.

If either outer or inner stator magnets are stronger, then steel bolts or studs will tend to lock on the stronger magnetic force.

That is just my opinion though.

Thanks

Ufopolitics

Hello everyone, I would like to ask why Beletskiy's device is not functioning properly? I think it should be able to run normally... :-\

Quote from: RhineX on Mar 28, 2024, 06:59 PMHello everyone, I would like to ask why Beletskiy's device is not functioning properly? I think it should be able to run normally... :-\

From my experiments, you can't just place magnets around it.  Outside stator magnets just realign the bolt's field and stick.

IMO- Cifta's design is worth considering.  The magnetized bolts will attract to steel and neutralize at TDC.

Quote from: RhineX on Mar 28, 2024, 06:59 PMHello everyone, I would like to ask why Beletskiy's device is not functioning properly? I think it should be able to run normally... :-\

Thanks Rhine X,

Same principle as shown here...

First, I see too big of a gap between Rotor and Outer Stator.

Second, the Outer Stator must "wrap" around Rotor, and there is too wide space on the "Neutral Zone" between both outer stators.

If you look at it closely, it only have a small center area of interaction from outer stators and rotor on both sides.

In my opinion, it is not well balanced plus it needs wrapping outer stators, same way a regular motor is designed.

Regards

Ufopolitics

Hello All,

Here is a Graphic Solution to Beletskiy's Device...like "they say"...one image is worth 1000 words.


On the LEFT is Beletskiy's Device, and I have specified all errors on its design, with distance GAP brackets and magenta circles.

The Gaps are too wide EVERYWHERE, so Magnetic Interactions are VERY weak.

Magenta Circle shows the ONLY area of REAL and strongest Magnetic Interaction.

On the RIGHT IMAGE is a Running Device.

Now, he has too many "Steel Bolts" at ROTOR, and that will result on a motor that runs very slow, but have a lot of Torque...

The LESSER "Bolts" you have, the faster motor will run, but have lesser torque.

The "Steel Bolts" are equal to Number of Coils and Steel Poles Faces, on a Brushed DC Motor Armature...

Same, identical principles of Electric Motors, basically the Brushed Type.

Regards

Ufopolitics

Hello to All,

Here is another short-video that Stefan (from OU) received a while back and uploaded to his YT Channel...from a Russian Inventor-Developer.

Point is that it Starts and Stops based on the same principle of sliding one of the components on and off the track, in this case he is bringing into centered position just ONE of the TWO Outer Stators:


Regards

Ufopolitics

Hello to All,

Well, I guess everyone is building this Magnet Motor...or have given up on this idea... ;D

I will tell you "Up front" that it will work, However, I have found some small error (flaw) on its design...but it could be corrected and be even greater.

And that is the fact that both Stator's Field, by being facing each other's, or both Stator's B-Fields being parallel, this creates a tendency that outer stators can also influence magnetically the "bolts" heads and as such, it will not spin.

So, in order to define which field influences the Steel Rotor component's, we need to set the bolt's end, closer to the inner stator, as to use a longer bolt...that way Outer Stator will only react with the bolt's head.

However, this setup creates a huge air gap between inner-outer stator field's...rendering a weaker rotating motor, if, it rotates at all.

I am developing a much better way to overcome this flaw...however, I will make a separate Topic on Magnet Motors Board, related to this build...As I do not want to keep clogging this thread @floodrod ...
As I figure he will have a self-runner to show us all here, pretty soon...

Regards

Ufopolitics

steel.JPG

We know from my video it will attract to steel. And it will release steel.  

Quote from: floodrod on Apr 03, 2024, 12:40 PMsteel.JPG

We know from my video it will attract to steel. And it will release steel. 

Hello Floodrod,

Yes, but according to your drawing above, it seems you are only using one magnet inside (or two arcs?) then the rest are just steel bars-bolts rotating on the outer side?

On the above diagram I only see a N/S Arc above, then only a Red Arc (no blue) below?...

Can you please provide a full (more specific) diagram of the motor you are planning to build?

Thanks

Ufopolitics

The alignments may not be exactly correct in that drawing I did on the side of the road.  But if the end of a bolt is aligned between 2 polarities, it will not attract metal. 

When it is over 1 polarity, it will.  


I can not guess if it will self run- one would need to examine what forces are present when moving a bolt from a magnets pole to the blotch wall area.  But this allows us to turn the bolt's magnetic field on and off, and flip polarities.  So it will attract to a steel stator, then drop it's attraction as the bolt moved to the blotch wall.

In my original video, this was under the rotor.  When a bolt passed the blotch wall of a magnet, it no longer attracts metal.

under.JPG

Now what if we could extend that blotch wall?  If so, the bolt can get far enough from a metal stator that it won't be pulled back in..

In my sloppy paint drawing, flip the bolts up so the bolt heads are aligned with the ring magnet's blotch wall. Now we have an extended blotch wall which will allow the bolt to escape.

The question is, what are the ramifications of passing steel from a magnet's pole  to a continuous blotch wall?  Will it be a smooth transition? 

Hello
It could be used here.
Greeting
Lota

Quote from: floodrod on Apr 03, 2024, 10:18 PMIn my sloppy paint drawing, flip the bolts up so the bolt heads are aligned with the ring magnet's blotch wall. Now we have an extended blotch wall which will allow the bolt to escape.

The question is, what are the ramifications of passing steel from a magnet's pole  to a continuous blotch wall?  Will it be a smooth transition?

Hi Floodrod,

It will not be a smooth transition but the momentum of the rotor can help in this. Problem may be eddy current loss in solid steel, use of ferrite or laminations are preferred,

Gyula

Hello all,

In my opinion:

1- The fact that rotating piece(s) of steel do not get attracted (or magnetized) every 180º around a magnet, does not guarantee we will have a full 360º rotation.
No matter if we repeat that Bloch Wall through many magnets installed.

2- Steel alone attracts to either North or South, no repulsion there, plus its attraction is weaker compared to N-S Attract.

The only thing that I find relevant is that a rotor based on steel separated parts, can get polarity reversals in a given rotational sequence around magnets.

Like I have shown before, the same method has been used to run brushed Symmetrical DC Motors for decades.


Regards

Ufopolitics

Quote from: lota on Apr 04, 2024, 02:19 AMHello
It could be used here.
Greeting
Lota

Hello Lota,

Lüling Motor is a completely different concept, it is based on:

1-First, Neutralizing ALL Magnetic Forces.
2-Then, Turning OFF Neutralization at specific points of the rotation.
3-Is assisted by Pneumatics.

I have replicated what Lüling did, at least, with the running prototype he shows on video:


The full explanation is here: https://overunitymachines.com/index.php/topic,3.0/topicseen.html

Btw, here is a full UHD 4K Video that I processed a while back about Lüling Motor from the original 35mm Film Strips (Thanks to Semi in Germany), then digitized at Highest Resolution:


Regards

Ufopolitics

I am attempting a build to use this effect to Reverse Lenz Drag.  We can create a Shrinking field on the rotor approach, and a Growing Field on Exit, thus reversing the current direction of induced current.

Floodrod, this looks interesting.  Do you have a diagram/model/picture showing your build?

Thanks-  That is my video above and by current build.

Under the stator table is a motor that rotates the iron or ferrite rotor.  This way I can watch amp draw of the source to see if it decreases under load.

Hello

3 years ago, a Swedish guy HRMofUtopia had the same idea as you, and he called this technology ALF.

The link below is his model animation
https://odysee.com/@HRMofUtopia:4/Anti-Lenz-Field-Generator-concept:7

The link below is his experiment
https://odysee.com/@HRMofUtopia:4/alf-all:7

I copied his experiment 3 years ago, and the result was the same as his, the current became lower, the rotor got faster and faster, and finally the rotor broke due to centrifugal force, so I didn't continue the experiment.

I hope you can succeed.

Quote from: RhineX on Jun 23, 2024, 07:04 AMHello

3 years ago, a Swedish guy HRMofUtopia had the same idea as you, and he called this technology ALF.

The link below is his model animation
https://odysee.com/@HRMofUtopia:4/Anti-Lenz-Field-Generator-concept:7

The link below is his experiment
https://odysee.com/@HRMofUtopia:4/alf-all:7

I copied his experiment 3 years ago, and the result was the same as his, the current became lower, the rotor got faster and faster, and finally the rotor broke due to centrifugal force, so I didn't continue the experiment.

I hope you can succeed.

Thank you for the links. Yes, this seems like the exact same idea. I am delighted to see others have had positive results with it. 

A rotor could be fabricated with stainless steel or similar which is not magnetic. Then have the ferromagnetic bridgers mounted within, to ensure the rotor can sustain the centrifugal forces. 

I am glad you showed me these videos, for now I know I should construct a shield for testing. Flying metal can be hazardous to your health!

Floodrod,

I really like your last video.  I am looking forward to you next one.   Can you please do a video with a resistive load and measure the voltage and current at the same time.  Open voltage and shorted current doesn't really give you a good idea of what your power out actually is.  And can you also include the power going to your driving motor.  Then we can compare input to output to get a better idea of how efficient your build actually is.

Thanks,
Carroll

Hi Cifta.  Thank you.

I have different parts on order.  I may rebuild soon..  The generator only has 4 small coils, so this was a small test to see if the design actually could offset lenz drag.  And in my opinion, it definitely can. I short circuit all 4 coils in parallel and I have 3+ amps of short circuit current and barely any slowdown or reduction of RPM.

The efficiency isn't there tho because of the input required to beat the cogging.  I am certain it can be designed better to use less input power to rotate.

But even with resistive loads, the RPM still does not suffer when compared to normal generator setups.  

Here's a video of what I am studying now..  Highly related..  There might be a way to make a self-runner with this magnetic domain flipping

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 05, 2024, 09:40 AMHere's a video of what I am studying now..  Highly related..  There might be a way to make a self-runner with this magnetic domain flipping

Hello Floodrod,

Interesting development!!

If you were able to short that output and RPM's only diminish a few, like 75, I believe you do have something there worth to keep going!

I am also doing a similar approach, related to a self-runner magnet motor, however, after a long process of development, I have found out that the more you 'fraction' the static magnets the better.
Before I have posted here to add magnets into a half circumference N and another for South...it does not work that way.

So, I am testing now a small center stator with Four N-S-N-S formation, as also on outer stator.
This way the rotor will have Eight steel bars, and I believe this way the cogging would be greatly reduced, because steel would try between N-S Polarities.

On another note, please feel free to add your Forum link here, mooker.com and direct it to your latest Topic Development.

After all, we are on the same boat, pursuing the same exact goals and interests...so may as well share and join all Forums.

If you want me to, I will add your Forum on the header where the words of Stefan are...or in our News Section.

Anyways, post freely your Topic links at your Forum here.

Regards

Ufopolitics
 

UFO-

Yeah man..  I would like to exchange links.  Neither of us are doing this for fame or fortune.  Just to uplift the world.  I will PM you later tonight.

So yes, I am still working on that generator idea.  I tried a few configurations and I am honing in on important aspects that aren't apparent at first glance..  And I have more large magnets ordered to build better.

The self-spinner idea is at a standstill..  A Literal stand still  LOL..  Some piece is missing that is preventing it from doing what a universal motor does.    As you know, a universal motor uses coils to magnetize the core, and the magnetized core is constantly trying to align with the field magnets but never can.  Like a dog chasing his own tail..  

A universal motor spins even without curved arc magnets.  I can place any magnet near the armature of a universal rotor and it spins.  So the question,  how do we use permanent magnets to magnetize the core instead of coils?  I tried magnetizing the core from the outside between 2 ring magnets, and from the inside.  Neither work..  But I can fully verify the armature is indeed magnetized..  It just won't chase itself around..

Here is the other one I built..  A ferrite toroid sandwiched between 2 ring magnets.  The ferrite toroid gets polarized diametrically with a blotch wall between the ring magnets.  The ferrite sticks slightly past the outer walls of the ring magnets.

Again- I held a field magnet in all positions and it won't spin..

ringo.JPG

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 09, 2024, 06:12 PM[...]
So the question,  how do we use permanent magnets to magnetize the core instead of coils? 

Hello Floodrod,

Great! let's do that (link Forums)

Now, related to your question above...

If you get a piece of steel close enough to any magnetic pole, it is an immediate reaction that pole will extend to the steel piece.
Meaning, if the steel piece gets closer to a South, it will become that South 'extended'...same with North, as the 'change' this swap takes (from S to N) are nano seconds.

Now, the trick we need to overcome is that the attraction between magnet and steel would NOT BE Stronger than the Repulsion we achieve by a second magnet of same pole approach.

So, first, that 'piece of steel' needs NOT to be connected -or be part of- any other steel on the surrounding area.
As it also depends on the MASS-VOLUME of this piece of steel...it can NOT be bigger than magnet pole...or too small that the repulsion force would not do the effect.

In my setup, all magnets are stationary, only the steel rotor spins, made of separated pieces and mounted on either a plastic or any other nonferrous metal drum also having the shaft.

It looks complicated but it is not, it does need to have patience testing different pieces of steel mass shapes.

I am building a very small motor, with rectangular N52 magnets which are 1 inch length by 1/8 thickness and 1/4 wide.

On another note...the magnetic Field can NOT be too wide, so, here the Arcs are out of this, but a very slim, narrow shape, so it acts precisely on an also thin steel bar of same length.

On the experimental side...having the rotor freely spinning with the inner magnets on and secured on a flat platform, by approaching close enough a repulse pole related to inner stator magnet...You should feel the repulsion force GREATER than an attraction to the steel bar.

I am still making parts on the lathe...but as soon as I have it, I will post it here.

Take care

Ufopolitics

I'm watching to see if you crack it..

I just want to add this though..  Metal near a magnet will not always induce the same polarity as the magnet.  It depends which side the magnet is on..

The side closest to the magnet turns the OPPOSITE polarity as the magnet.  And the FAR side turns the same polarity as the magnet. 

I can demonstrate conclusive proof of this with scope shots if needed.mnet.JPG

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 09, 2024, 07:21 PMI'm watching to see if you crack it..

I just want to add this though..  Metal near a magnet will not always induce the same polarity as the magnet.  It depends which side the magnet is on..

The side closest to the magnet turns the OPPOSITE polarity as the magnet.  And the FAR side turns the same polarity as the magnet. 

I can demonstrate conclusive proof of this with scope shots if needed.mnet.JPG

Ok, that looks 'interesting' and could have further research...however, I disagree.
The simplest way to find out is to get a Magnetic Viewing Film...and place it covering both, magnet and steel.
You can use any plastic piece as a gap, in between magnet-steel.
Then you will see that the Bloch Wall on Magnet has displaced towards steel piece. So, it is no longer at dead center of magnet.
Of course, it depends on the steel length, so the longer the steel, the further away the Bloch wall would set towards steel.

Anywhere you get an N & S polarization on the same piece of steel, you always must get a center Bloch wall. So, check if your steel piece has a centered Bloch wall.

I have that experiment on a video...where I used an identical cylinder of steel as the magnet.

Cheers

Ufopolitics

Here is a pic of a laminate on viewing paper.

paper.JPG

You can see the 2 separated poles and the whole center has no polarity.

It's also undeniable with a scope, coil and magnet.  Place the magnet inside the coil then pass the laminate by the coil.  Observe the sinewave..  Then switch the positions and place the laminate between the magnet and coil..   The sinewave reverses..  Same pole of the magnet affecting the laminate both times and same direction of motion.  but reversed sinewave.

Link added in the header-  https://www.mooker.com/index.php  

I might make it nicer later.  but it's up  :D

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 09, 2024, 07:54 PMHere is a pic of a laminate on viewing paper.

paper.JPG

You can see the 2 separated poles and the whole center has no polarity.

It's also undeniable with a scope, coil and magnet.  Place the magnet inside the coil then pass the laminate by the coil.  Observe the sinewave..  Then switch the positions and place the laminate between the magnet and coil..  The sinewave reverses..  Same pole of the magnet affecting the laminate both times and same direction of motion.  but reversed sinewave.

Hello Floodrod,

Ok, according to what I see on image above plus your description, you have a galvanized steel laminate and a bar magnet sticked on top...
And I believe we are discussing two separate experiments.
If my interpretation is wrong, please let me know, thanks.

Previously, I was referring to a 3D Volume of steel material (could be a cube, a rectangle or a bar or cylinder) getting closer or making contact (it don't matter, it's the same effect for closer or contacting) with a magnet pole

I have made a short video so you (and all other's viewing here) have an idea:


Related to the coil, magnet and scope plus the laminate...if you have a video of this test, it would help to see how it is done.

But again, we are talking different embodiments here...and geometry is very important when it comes to analyzing magnetic fields behavior.

Cheers

Ufopolitics 

Sure- here is a video..  And a Clip from ChatGpt.




opposite poles.JPG

Floodrod,

You are reversing the Magnetic Field of the Ring Magnet once that you flip the smiley face facing towards the coil.
When smiling face is facing outwards (not towards coil) the field spin is completely reversed once you reverse its direction.

But as you have written on the video title..."hopefully this settles the debate"...if you wish we will leave it here.

About Chat GPT...ask it about an over unity machine...if it is possible?
Ask about a Permanent Magnet Motor...?

So, how can we trust something that tells you "it does not exist".

We do not have OU because of this lack of knowledge related to magnetic fields (talking about Chat GPT.)

So, let's leave it as "settled"...

Ufopolitics

Hello,

To finalize this debate, I will just leave below a video I did around Eight [8] years ago and directly related to the subject under discussion here.

It will only take 3:48 minutes to watch it...


Regards to all

Ufopolitics

The ring magnet is not moving and is not inducing the coil.  The ring magnet is magnetizing the metal and the moving metal is inducing.

This is common knowledge.  Magnetism 101. 

A magnet sticks to metal because the closest part of the metal induces an Opposite polarity,  and opposite polarities attract..

https://en.openprof.com/wb/chapter:induced_magnetism/3623/

If a magnet induced the same polarity in metal -  Metal would Repel a magnet. 

In your video, you are holding a compass next to a magnet..  It will read the strongest pole, which is obviously the magnet

https://byjus.com/question-answer/a-magnet-attracts-an-iron-piece-by-an-pole-on-its-near-end/  

" if you place a piece of iron on one end of a magnet, the end of the piece nearer to the magnet will cause the opposite polarity through a magnetic induction process."

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 10, 2024, 07:29 PMThe ring magnet is not moving and is not inducing the coil.  The ring magnet is magnetizing the metal and the moving metal is inducing.

Yes, that is correct, the ring magnet is not inducing coil...its magnetic field is.
Yes, the ring magnet is "magnetizing" the coil core, that means the field have expanded into the coil core.
Yes, the "moving metal" is causing whole field* to "change" according to Faraday Law...and of course it generates the spike.
*when I write 'whole field' I mean the whole expanded field into the coil core.

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 10, 2024, 07:29 PMThis is common knowledge.  Magnetism 101.

According to who?...to Chat GPT?
Or according to the "magnetism" we all have learned in school?
C'mon man!!

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 10, 2024, 07:29 PMA magnet sticks to metal because the closest part of the metal induces an Opposite polarity,  and opposite polarities attract..

https://en.openprof.com/wb/chapter:induced_magnetism/3623/

Negative, not true...A magnet 'sticks' to a ferrous metal because its Field EXPANDS to the steel.

Why do we ALWAYS need to add heavy steel plates as cores for generators Exciters as Induced Fields?
Why whenever we add a steel plate to an inducing coil it increases its output?
Because we are Expanding, Increasing Magnetic Field thanks to steel.

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 10, 2024, 07:29 PMIf a magnet induced the same polarity in metal -  Metal would Repel a magnet.

Nope, just because the magnetic field is not "inducing" into the steel, it is just expanding into it.
Of course, if you wrap a copper coil around that metal whenever you approach or retract field it will induce electricity into the coil.

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 10, 2024, 07:29 PMIn your video, you are holding a compass next to a magnet..  It will read the strongest pole, which is obviously the magnet

If there would be a South Pole on the steel small bar, no matter how small that pole be, it would be enough to deflect the needle of compass not allowing to be linearly straight anymore than when magnet is approached.

I will prepare another video testing related to this, but not anytime soon, as I am busy on other projects.

Take care.

Ufopolitics

@All,

Let's clarify some BASIC DEFINITION TERMINOLOGY :

QuoteElectromagnetic or magnetic induction:
is the production of an electromotive force (emf) across an electrical conductor in a changing magnetic field. Alternating electric current flows through the solenoid on the left, producing a changing magnetic field.

From: Electromagnetic or Magnetic Induction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_induction#:~:text=Electromagnetic%20or%20magnetic%20induction%20is,producing%20a%20changing%20magnetic%20field.)

From the above definition is VERY CLEAR that Electromagnetic or MAGNETIC INDUCTION is a WHOLE PROCESS, which involves copper coils, steel cores and a CHANGING Magnetic Field, and as a Result we obtain an EMF.
This is Faraday 1831.
Then we have an 'inverse reaction' that comes along with this Induction Process known as Lenz Law...which just adds a minus sign to Faraday Equation...and yes, it has been proven, over and over, that it generates the OPPOSITE MAGNETIC POLARIZATION PROCESS as the one that originally caused it.


So, a very WRONG TERM, is to say that whenever we just approach ANY Magnetic Field (PM or EM) to a Ferrous Material..."We are Inducing" that steel or ferromagnetic mass.

Because IF we 'accept' that it takes place "an induction" between PLAINLY Magnetic Field and the Steel, without coils or EMF...Then we are also involving/including that "Lenz Reaction" to this very wrong understanding!!

And all this is...is NOISE and CONFUSION, that only leads to have ALL completely wrong concept(s).

The CORRECT TERM here, is that Magnetic Field, whenever it approaches, or touches a Steel Mass, it is EXPANDING/INCREASING that Field into the Ferromagnetic Material.

Believe me people, IF we do not have these magnetism ROOT-TERMS clearly defined...we will NEVER reach OR UNDERSTAND ANY OU Machine.

Thanks for reading it.

Ufopolitics

Biasing a coil core in a steady field does NOT change the induced current direction when subjected to a changing magnetic field. .    My tests have all shown that conventual understanding is correct.  

No- Not only according to ChatGpt.  My conclusion is in accordance with basic magnetism knowledge that is taught in schools and textbooks as I shared with 2 links and am happy to share more.

You are free to believe what you want. But id you are sincere you wish to only stand by truth, I suggest doing more research on this very important and basic property of magnetics.

" Why do we ALWAYS need to add heavy steel plates as cores for generators Exciters as Induced Fields?"

Because  When a current flows through the coil, it generates a magnetic field that magnetizes the ferromagnetic core. The core's magnetic domains align with the magnetic field, enhancing the overall field.   The core increases the overall magnetic flux because the domains in the core align in a way that supports the coil's field.

You can understand this a bit better by taking a large ring magnet from a speaker.  Now pass a second magnet in repulsion mode 1mm over the ring magnet,  You will notice the moving magnet repels the ring magnet until it reaches the center hole, at that point the magnet want's to get sucked into the hole.  But after passing the hole, it will start to repel again.

Next, place a metal core inside the ring magnet and observe the changes.  Soon it will become apparent why and how a core aids in induction when placed in the center of a coil.

Maybe if we consider permanent magnets does have their own energy (contained) and the same apply to electrets we can see things different. Where permanent magnets provide high current low voltage and electrets low current and high voltage

Electrets would more suitable used in "electrostatic" field and permanent magnets in "hot" electric field.

Low current is more suited for high frequency while high current suited to low frequency if we do not seek self destruction of device operating in electric charge flow.

I don't know why we don't speak about self induction of coils in such analyse and we ignore it. All old textbooks consider self induction, but not the more recent ones.

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 10, 2024, 07:01 PMSure- here is a video..  And a Clip from ChatGpt.

opposite poles.JPG

Excellent example, it may help to explain "electron flow".

In mainstream science such ""electron flow" is considered in first place without any explanation of how electrons being part of atoms (particle of matter) "flow" anywhere ... please observe that any conducting material do not lose their mass in any way when "electron flow" takes place.

All kind of silly explanations are offered generously speaking of ions, anions and cations and so on but there is no mass transfer in real world whatever explanations is given by this silly theory.
So, yes we can consider electrons as particle of matter and their properties to retain and transmit polarised charge.

But here is more to it, electric charge can be "conducted" by conductive materials and dielectric materials as well ... when we speak about about conductivity actually we refer to polarisation of electric charge which can take place in the mass of matter (copper wire) or on surface of matter (dielectric) as we observe in "electrostatic charge" where magnetic field depend on the mass penetration. The higher is electric penetration the higher is magnetic field of radiated matter. All the charge that can not be absorbed in the matter will be acumulate on its surface.

If we consider what I said above we can understand why we can "generate" electric energy using 2 static magnetic field with a conductive (copper disc) rotating between them as in Faraday disc.

Also, this can help to understand why we don't need galvanic reaction or chemical reaction between 2 metal electrodes placed in an insulated dielectric medium (see my experiment with water battery).

This electric energy exist everywhere in the universe and we are using its property to polarise where the sum of all energy is zero(or infinite) when no flow taking place.

Also this explain how and why electric charge is stored in magnetic field in capacitors or in electric field inductors.

Before making assumptions on electricity and magnetism we need to first understand what is electric charge our long gone friend and scientist Augustine-Charles de Coulomb have shared his discoveries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb's_law

Quote from: Classic on Jul 11, 2024, 07:11 AMAlso this explain how and why electric charge is stored in magnetic field in capacitors or in electric field inductors.

Opps, I mean exactly the opposite, inductors store energy in magnetic field and capacitors in electric field ... mass of conductors = magnetic storage, mass of dielectric = electric storage.

Iron or ferrous alloy = more current > more magnetic mass, which increase with resistance to electric charge flow.

If a Faraday disc is made of aluminium will yield opposite polarities than using copper disc provided is spun in the same direction, due to different atomic structure of elements and their density.

Also, this explain atmospheric electricity which some scientists call it "electrostatic".

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 11, 2024, 05:44 AM

Hello Floodrod,

Great test!
Now, please put nail standing up, with head resting on North pole.
Then run the tool, scanning nail (leaving it on the magnet) from bottom to top and from top to bottom.

Once you take nail off the Field, the magnetic reminiscence would show what we saw on your video.

Thks

Ufopolitics

Hello All,

Ok Floodrod, I did the test that I requested on my previous post ...however, you can still do it.

Except I used a long steel bolt instead of a thin nail:


Just draw your own conclusions...

Ufopolitics

Magnetic fields merge to form 1 field.  A compass will always detect the overall average of the field once merged.  If a magnet is strong enough to magnetize metal, you will never get a compass to read the weaker of the 2 fields.

You can test this by sticking 2 magnets together then try to get your compass to detect the individual opposite poles that are stuck together.  This is basically what you are asking me to do. 

What you are suggesting is that the metal becomes a "Monopole" magnet when there is an air gap.  But in the video you just quoted, I just created a HUGE air gap and clearly demonstrated it certainly is not a "Monopole".

Sticking 2 magnets together does not make 1 a monopole, nor does placing a magnet by metal make it a monopole.

maggos.JPG

In your test, this is what is happening..

You have a strong field from the magnet and a WEAK field in the bolt.  You will never be able to read the weak opposite field with a detector when a much stronger opposite field is nearby.  

weaker.JPG

Same Polarity poles do not attract..  The bolt attracts to the magnet because they are Opposite poles.

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 11, 2024, 12:05 PMMagnetic fields merge to form 1 field.  A compass will always detect the overall average of the field once merged.  If a magnet is strong enough to magnetize metal, you will never get a compass to read the weaker of the 2 fields.

Floodrod,

That tool is NOT a simple, raw 'compass', it is an electronic pole seeker, and is VERY accurate.
It will detect weak or strong fields.

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 11, 2024, 12:05 PMYou can test this by sticking 2 magnets together then try to get your compass to detect the individual opposite poles that are stuck together.  This is basically what you are asking me to do.

Whenever you stick Two Magnets together, you NO LONGER have the mid poles, when you stick two magnets together, BOTH "once separated" individual poles becomes TWO LARGER Poles, meaning ONE FIELD.

All these concepts are DEAD WRONG!!

A very simple way to verify this is using Magnetic Viewing Film. [color=var(--input-txt-color)]Where each magnet has its OWN center BLOCH Wall...then once stick together, [/color]you NO LONGER see Two Bloch Walls BUT ONE, right on joining gap between both magnets.

Every time there is a Magnetic Field, there is one DEAD CENTER BLOCH WALL, it is inherent to ALL magnetic fields.

So, if you add two, three, four magnets together, the Magnetic Field will automatically seek for the EXACT Gravitational center of the whole chain, and there would be the Bloch Wall.

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 11, 2024, 12:05 PMWhat you are suggesting is that the metal becomes a "Monopole" magnet when there is an air gap.  But in the video you just quoted, I just created a HUGE air gap and clearly demonstrated it certainly is not a "Monopole".

Sticking 2 magnets together does not make 1 a monopole, nor does placing a magnet by metal make it a monopole.

maggos.JPG

There is NO MONOPOLE at ALL on all these claims, at what point I have claimed a "MONOPOLE" here??!!
it is just an EXPANDED SINGLE POLE, with steel extension, while the South is STILL THERE...So, there are Two Poles, asymmetrically displayed, but TWO POLES.

Ufopolitics

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 11, 2024, 12:21 PMIn your test, this is what is happening..

You have a strong field from the magnet and a WEAK field in the bolt.  You will never be able to read the weak opposite field with a detector when a much stronger opposite field is nearby. 

weaker.JPG

Same Polarity poles do not attract..  The bolt attracts to the magnet because they are Opposite poles.

Floodrod,

That image is dead wrong!

And who told you that a plain, NOT Magnetized piece of steel needs to have a "South Pole" to be attracted by a Magnetic Field?

Magnetic Fields attract Non Magnetized Steel because it EXPANDS into its Ferrous Mass, regardless of "poles".

It will attract steel from North or South, without absolutely no difference.

Search for a center Bloch Wall on that nail sticked up to North Pole with Viewing Film...and see if you can find it.

Ufopolitics

" it is just an EXPANDED SINGLE POLE, with steel extension, while the South is STILL THERE...So, there are Two Poles, asymmetrically displayed, but TWO POLES."

Right, now we are starting to get on the same page..

When 2 magnets (or 1 magnet and 1 metal) are stuck together, they become 1 magnet with 2 poles.  But as soon as they are separated, the individual OPPOSITE poles in each separate entity are identifiable.  

Just as I shown with my induction test.  And my point when we are magnetizing metal with an air gap..  The side of the metal facing the magnet becomes the OPPOSITE polarity when the air gap is introduced..

Meaning, we can choose which polarity we magnetize nearby metal with by carefully choosing what side of the metal faces the magnet and which side we place the stator magnet

I am actually glad we had this debate because while testing, I just found a new way to try that may show promise.

Hey Floodrod,

So according to your theory on the test I made, and you draw this image below:

weaker.JPG

So, then we can conclude that the pink (faded) south pole is a pole acting as an "undercover" ;D ?...

it is "hidden" under the "big daddy north"...so we cannot find it?

Then -if you are correct on your theory- then we can "disregard it" from any external magnetic interactions...?

Simply, because if I approach another North Pole to that bolt it will REPEL it until it falls from its upward position.

I think even if we have an undercover weaker south pole...it will serve to continue with the self-runner...because it is so small it won't get noticed.

Cheers

Ufopolitics

Look closely.  My image shows an air gap between the magnet and bolt..  So the OPPOSITE POLES are separated.  

When an air gap is introduced, it is no longer 1 magnet. As I have shown in several tests now.

And YES....   Metal sticks to magnets because the magnet aligns the magnetic domains in the metal, thus making the metal into a magnet.  

When you place a single magnet in front of metal with an air gap, the side of the metal closest to the magnet's pole takes the OPPOSITE Polarity.  

Notice I said "Single Magnet" because this differs widely on how the metal magnetizes when more magnets are used.

Floodrod,

Let's find some 'agreement points' between you and me...so, please answer my questions.

1- You have shown here, many times the acknowledgement of a Bloch Wall in All magnets, as a matter of fact, you have shown that at this CENTER of every magnet there is a 'not sticking point' to a steel bolt. Correct?

2- Ok, so, this Bloch Wall is clearly visible with Magnetic View Film (MVF) as a lighter stripe that goes like a center plane at the whole 360 degrees around, dividing North and South Poles, correct?

If we get to an agreement on all the above, then, according to your theory (or the 'classic magnetism 101') every time we approach a magnet to a piece of steel, we are making that steel piece 'another magnet'...correct?

So, according to ALL of the above, that piece of plain steel, now converted into a FULL Magnet, sticking to a permanent magnet, it should have definitively its OWN Center Bloch Wall, right?

Well, it do NOT.

Same way when approaching and sticking two identical magnets together, that "previously" had their own independent Bloch Walls...NOW, once together, you only can clearly see ONE Bloch Wall at their joining gap...?

According to Magnetism 101, there should be TWO Bloch Walls, when the magnets are stick together, However there are NOT Two, but only one?

You can do this test yourself and verify what I am writing here is perfectly right.

How can this FACT be justified by Magnetism 101?

They won't, simply because they will NOT acknowledge any Bloch Wall...because it will throw all this BS Theory to ground!!

Ufopolitics

Ok think of it like this..

Take a coil.  Power it with DC..  You now have a magnetic field with a North and South..  Now split the coil in half.  Pull half the coil stack off and place it on the bench next to the first stack. 

When you separate it it turns into 2 coils..  And the 2 sides that were together are Opposite Polarities..

Same with 2 batteries in series..  Negative and Positive Connect to make 1 source..  Now pull the batteries apart.  Now you have 2 separate batteries with opposite polarities that were together

had to go for an appointment..

" According to Magnetism 101, there should be TWO Bloch Walls, when the magnets are stick together, However there are NOT Two, but only one?

Magnetism 101 is that when ferrous metal is near a magnet, the end of the metal closest to the magnet takes the opposite polarity.

That is my stance.  

Now what exactly is your stance?  Please state it clearly in 1 sentence.  Are you saying when metal is near a magnet, the closest side to the magnet is THE SAME polarity??  

Now regarding the magnetic viewing paper..  IF you were able to magnetized steel strong enough to be viewable through viewing paper and it was NOT touching the magnet, the metal would show a Blotch Wall..  But good luck magnetizing a piece of steel enough to view it..

Even with magnets, viewing paper shows 2 attached magnets as 1 blotch wall.  UNTIL you separate them..  


But this is not even relevant to my stance.  We are magnetizing metal from some distance for our projects and not touching the magnets.  So in our case, the portion of the metal closest to the magnet takes the opposite polarity as the magnet facing the metal.

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 11, 2024, 03:00 PMOk think of it like this..

Take a coil.  Power it with DC..  You now have a magnetic field with a North and South..  Now split the coil in half.  Pull half the coil stack off and place it on the bench next to the first stack. 

When you separate it it turns into 2 coils..  And the 2 sides that were together are Opposite Polarities..

Floodrod,

I also agree with your above statement.

You have ONE COIL and ONE MAGNETIC FIELD, split COIL in HALF, now you have TWO COILS and TWO MAGNETIC FIELDS.

THEN DO THE OPPOSITE OPERATION:

Join the TWO COILS with their TWO MAGNETIC FIELDS BACK into ONE COIL...What happens now?

You are back on Step 1, meaning that now you have ONE COIL and ONE MAGNETIC FIELD.

The same exact deal takes place with permanent magnets.

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 11, 2024, 03:00 PMSame with 2 batteries in series..  Negative and Positive Connect to make 1 source..  Now pull the batteries apart.  Now you have 2 separate batteries with opposite polarities that were together

Sorry, but you CAN NOT compare Batteries with Magnetic Fields.

MF are way too COMPLEX from every point you want to look at it.

And look, we are not going to get anywhere on this debate...we are just wasting time here.

We both have completely different point of views about the way Magnetic Fields are and work.

Our thoughts are definitively different and none of us is going to accept other's views.

So, let's leave it in a "pause" by now.

I have MANY things to do, as I believe you also have.

Ufopolitics

If you don't mind, I can add some info regarding manipulation of magnetism:

If you wind a solenoid with bifilar wires gives you 2 options:
Option 1 end of first wire goes to beginning of second wire result in magnetic field strength increased. Very little current is needed, result in less power required on input.
Option 2 input negative and positive on the same end of solenoid and the other 2 ends connected together result in magnetic field contained inside the solenoid. Less current is needed to enable magnetic field.

If you wind a monofilar with center tap, a double magnet is obtained with option to switch them separately. Again, less current is required as input.

If you wind bucking coils which is 2 solenoids end to end connected to same polarity and opposite polarity at opposite ends. Again less current is needed for input.

If we consider self inductance or bemf as many prefer to call it we can observe magnetic field is increased on each pulse or interruption in a direction we need.

Using pure iron or plain soft annealed iron polarity of magnetism can be switched in an instant. If steel or any iron alloy with added carbon is used, residual magnetism is present when switching polarities of current and bemf is losing strength by that residual amount.

Great explanations can be found on patent 336961, 336962, 512340 of Tesla.

If magnetic delay is pursued for inductive loads 433702 Tesla patent may help to understand how an iron shield with second magnetic field is employed for ordinary motors to have voltage leading the current and no reactive power is created, as all inductive loads in ordinary (off the shelf) motors will create reactive power which can be collected with capacitors and send a feedback or just adding resistive loads (incandescent lamp for example or resistive heating elements).

Resistance is responsible for current and current is responsible for magnetic field ... when magnetic field is too strong we need extra power supplied at input to prevent current leading voltage when much more power is wasted.

For reference see additional files attached.

UFO-  Ok I am also done debating, but I would still like to know your main stance.

Were you saying that the end of ferrous metal closest to a magnetic pole takes the same Polarity?

Quote from: floodrod on Jul 12, 2024, 11:59 AMUFO-  Ok I am also done debating, but I would still like to know your main stance.

Were you saying that the end of ferrous metal closest to a magnetic pole takes the same Polarity?

Floodrod,

My answer is strictly based on ALL my experiments and real testing on Magnetism for years, and of course, with the guidance and knowledge from many books, including those written by Walter C Rawls & Albert Roy Davis and Ken Lee Wheeler.

And Yes, I DO say that whenever we approach or contact a Piece of non-magnetized steel to a Magnetic Field Pole, this action EXPANDS this SAME POLE into the Steel piece.

I also say that any piece of non-magnetized steel does NOT "automatically and magically" converts itself into a FULL ADDITIONAL MAGNETIC FIELD, just because of approaching it or making full contact with a Magnetic Field Pole.
Fully Magnetizing any piece of steel, in order to have a FULL MAGNETIC FIELD POLARIZATION is a whole Process that takes electrification through a coil wrapped around it.
NOT by simply approaching or contacting a Magnetic Field Pole.
That operation of just approaching or touching a piece of steel to a Magnetic Field is called Magnetic Reminiscence like you can do to the tip of a screwdriver.

But, again, this answer is based not because I am a stubborn and hooked on this idea but based on several real testing.

For example, this CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) viewing of Magnetic Field plus adding a piece of steel...


And again, I do not want to hack your Topic here, as deviated from all your great experiments and testing based on a discussion about magnetism in general...so, I will keep developing this on my other Topic specifically dedicated to Magnetism and Science:

Magnetism and Science (overunitymachines.com) (https://overunitymachines.com/index.php/topic,56.0.html)

Regards

Ufopolitics

@floodrod,

I can clean up your whole topic here from all discussions related to this debate about steel and magnetic fields, it is up to you as the owner of this Topic.

I am still going to keep posting this debate at Magnetism and Science Topic (https://overunitymachines.com/index.php/topic,56.0.html), where we can keep the discussion.

As I consider it of very important material for all who are interested to expand their knowledge about magnetism.

Regards

Ufopolitics

Quote from: Ufopolitics on Mar 28, 2024, 02:18 PMHello,

And here is running based on Attraction Mode...

MAGNETIC_POLARITY_REDIRECTION_SELF_RUNNER_ATTRACTION.png

If you all have noticed, all I have done is to rotate the outer Arc Stators (S1 + S2) about 90 degrees CW...

The three bolts temporarily South (red) above, will try to align to center of S1...but will never happen, because of the swap.

Also the lower three North (Blue) Bolts, would try to align on center of Arc Stator S2...

I have also shown here the Partial Repulsions taking place above and below.

Speed could be adjusted based on angle of outer stators...

Ufopolitics

Hi @Ufopolitics. It seems to me that the problem with this design is that the neutral line is not actually neutral. The neutral bolts will take on the pole of the outer ring they are next to and that gives an opposite torque on those bolts due to the attraction/repulsion of the inner magnets they are close to. At first glance it looked like a magnificent solution but it will require some careful contemplation to get from there to a self runner. It might be time for me to get up to speed with some FEM software to model such machines. FreeCAD has a FEM workbench but I think it is more designed to analyse mechanical stress than magnetic fields. I have ground to a halt with my project while I wait for some more bearings and magnets and a better 3D printer, so I am pondering a rotary rather than reciprocating machine - a hybred of Luling's motor - so this topic is very interesting to me. Thanks for posting.

Quote from: Prajna on Aug 12, 2024, 05:59 AMHi @Ufopolitics.

It seems to me that the problem with this design is that the neutral line is not actually neutral. The neutral bolts will take on the pole of the outer ring they are next to and that gives an opposite torque on those bolts due to the attraction/repulsion of the inner magnets they are close to. At first glance it looked like a magnificent solution but it will require some careful contemplation to get from there to a self runner.

Hello Prajna!!

Yes, you are completely right, referring that those 'bolts' at the 'Neutral Line' are "not that neutral" at all...
Mainly those bolts still keep an attraction -mainly- to the outer stator's fields...and yes, these forces will drag or even "lock" the movement of rotor.

Definitively this issue needs to be addressed...and I know it depends highly on the "bolts steel mass" versus the attract or repulse forces to get rotor in motion.

If we are able to have a much lower value on the neutral plane attract forces, THAN on the attract-repulse rotary forces combined...then we will get a 'self-runner'.

At least that is the way I see this approach...

...On a side note: please, give me a "like" on this post,!!...LOL

Regards

Ufopolitics